Welsh Highland Railway
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News (updated 11/12/13)
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This southerly view (3/4/13) shows No.138 on the morning train passing Beddgelert Forest Campsite at 1040 in the bright Spring sunshine. This train passes the morning southbound service at Rhyd Ddu. There were several days of brilliant sunny, if cold, weather around Easter 2013 and the mountains put on a good alpine display covered in snow down to Rhyd Ddu. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Barrie Hughes and was taken on a Kodak DX6490 digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
Welcome to Version 4 of this website, launched on September 8 2004 with news about work on Phase 4 of the WHR scheme. In addition to this Stop Press page and a Phase 1/2 page, there are 9 location pages, covering the Phase 3 works between Waunfawr and Rhyd Ddu. There are a further 9 pages covering Phase 4, the full route through Beddgelert, the Aberglaslyn Pass and on to Porthmadog, including the Traeth Mawr to Pen-y-Mount works recently constructed by the WHHR) with three regularly updated map links for this area by Laurence Armstrong.
Finally, there are pages covering 'Phase 5', Views from the Line, the history of the abandoned PBSSR works around Beddgelert, Archived News and a Contacts page for volunteers. Another page covers the current operation of the WHHR) southwest from Pen-y-Mount.
The above OS map shows the route through the Aberglaslyn Pass and Beddgelert. Click on the image to enlarge. Image produced from the Ordnance Survey Get-a-map service. Image reproduced with kind permission of Ordnance Survey and Ordnance Survey of Northern Ireland.
Click here to use the free OS Get-a-map service.
Route section pages
Listed below are links to pages featuring progress on different sections of the line or archive views. Jump ahead to News section or follow the section links from page to page. Please note that access to the links below was restored on 2/9/04 at the new website www.isengard.co.uk
Phase 4 pages
Rhyd Ddu to Pont Cae'r Gors (updated 29/6/06)
Pont Cae'r Gors to Hafod Ruffydd Halt (new 8/10/06)
Hafod Ruffydd Halt to Beddgelert Forest Halt (updated 4/12/06)
Beddgelert Forest Halt to Beddgelert Station (updated 1/7/07)
Beddgelert Station Area (updated 30/6/07)
Beddgelert Station to Bryn-y-felin (updated 1/7/07)
Aberglaslyn Pass (updated 2/7/07)
Nantmor to Pont Croesor (updated 16/7/07)
Pont Croesor to Pen-y-Mount (updated 1/4/07)
WHR (Porthmadog) (updated 1/4/07)
Porthmadog Cross Town Link (updated 1/4/07)
'Phase 6' page (new 2/4/06)
Views from the Line Page (updated 26/2/05)
PBSSR Works Historical Page (updated 25/3/05)
Rhyd Ddu Opening Page (New 14/2/04)
Archived News Page (updated 30/11/13)
Snow Scenes (updated 19/1/13)
Rolling Stock News Page (updated 28/12/04)
Phase 4 News Page (updated 3/3/05)
Volunteer Contact details page (updated 3/10/13)
Phase 2 and 3 page list (updated 27/8/08)
Access to Phase 2 pages is currently being progressed.
If you would like an automated announcement of site updates, email me at the NEW (2013) address below replacing the letters 'dot' with a full stop
This has been introduced as an anti-spam feature.
There has never been any intent by myself to suggest that the views on these pages represent the views, opinions or policy of the FR, the WHRCL or the WHRS.
I am happy to confirm that this is an INDEPENDENT web news service.
New construction images/text will be posted on a regular basis.
New text in RED!
Phase 2 DVD released
Following many requests, your webmaster's Hi8 (stereo) Phase 2 analogue camcorder footage has been captured with a digitiser and edited to make a 2 hour DVD. All footage is from the year 2000, including:-
Click here for the Clip List.
The previous Phase 3 VHS video has been edited from original material onto DVD. Both Phase 2 and Phase 3 DVDs come in library boxes with smart illustrated inserts and a clip list (no commentary). The DVDs themselves are attractively labelled with a snowy alpine railway scene at Rhyd Ddu. The DVDs can be provided in any format (+R/-R/+RW/-RW) and the DVDs are not regionalised. Special orders for NTSC versions could be considered if the technology proves workable. All monies raised from the sale of these DVDs will go to the WHRS to support Phase 4. Contact the WHR/FR Shop. Limited numbers of copies of both DVDs will be on sale at WHRS events.
Phase 3 Video Offer
A new video offer for Phase 3 was launched at Easter 2004. The last video generated over £1,000 all of which was donated to the WHRS and the new video sold out at Super Power 2004, raising over £400 for Phase 4 funds.
The new video shows the construction, works trains, Royal test trains and the opening to Rhyd Ddu. The video is over 1.5 hours long covering the period 2000-2003. It also includes a few Gala clips and a 'chase the train' sequence at Llwyn-y-bedw. The special Xmas Edition now contains K1 in action footage and the 2005 Gala and the delivery of K1 to Dinas.
Phase 2 is also available in DVD format mastered from digitised analogue footage.
Phase 3 is now available in DVD format mastered from VHS tape for better reproduction!
Click here for Phase 3 Construction video Clip List
Sept 2007-Aug 2008 Edition of Phase 4 DVD
A new edition appeared at Garratt 50 including scenes from SuperPower 2007 through Palmerston at Beddgelert, the Supporters' Specials in the Aberglaslyn Pass to the final stages of linking up at Traeth Mawr. The DVD is an hour long. John Wooden sold them from his shop and also his on-line shop with all money raised going directly to the WHRS for Phase 4 funds. Following the review to be published in the Winter 2009 TSR, more copies will be produced over Xmas.
Click here for FR on-line shop
Click here for DVD Clip List
Click here for the latest YouTube Clip or on the box below
Click on the YouTube box above to watch 1 min of video of Prince crossing Bryn-y-felin bridge on 27/10/08 working a photo-charter. The quality of the YouTube clip does not represent the quality of the DVD. This video was taken by Barrie Hughes on a JVC Everio GZ-MG21EK camcorder.
Click here for Laurence Armstrong's latest WHR North map dated 5/11/07
Click here for Laurence Armstrong's latest WHR Middle map dated 14/3/10
Click here for Laurence Armstrong's latest WHR South map dated 14/3/10
Click here for Mike Schumann's Phase 4 TWA maps courtesy of Steve Harris/WHRS
Click here for John Sreeves Gradient profile courtesy of Steve Harris/WHRS
Click here for Chainages and OS Map Reference
Harbour station progress 10/12/13
Track in Harbour Station has been reconnected to allow the Xmas train services to run. The ballast bed for 5 road is nearly complete.
This easterly view 10/12/13 shows the ballast bed laid alongside the sea wall for the future 5 road at Porthmadog Harbour station nearing completion at the station throat end of the new layout. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Andrew Thomas (F&WHR) and was taken on a digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
Tuesday Gang report 10/12/13
Tony Baker reports: On Tuesday 10/12/13 we assisted at Minffordd Yard making up a works train with the rail and all fittings needed to lay the new 5 road at Porthmadog Harbour Station. This is planned to happen between Xmas and New Year with the BHG and the ROTWG. We have now finished for 2013 and resume on 7/1/14 at Harbour Station.
Harbour Station work December 2013
Phase 5a to be completed in December includes the following
For map see WHR Soc website. Click on the pdf to rotate clockwise if necessary.
This north-easterly view 6/12/13 shows the ballast bed laid alongside the sea wall for the future 5 road at Porthmadog Harbour station. There will be no 6 road. The bull head rail complete with buffer stop is waiting alongside to be moved onto the ballast bed. The concrete sea wall is being clad in slate blockwork. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Stuart McNair and was taken on a digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
This south-westerly view 6/12/13 shows the track and buffer stop laid on the new ballast bed alongside the sea wall for the future 5 road at Porthmadog Harbour station. It was decided to complete this track earlier than programmed as other works were ahead of schedule and completion of 5 road would allow better rail access to complete the new Harbour Station layout in early 2014. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Stuart McNair and was taken on a digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
Harbour station January-February 2014 campaign 28/11/13
Click on the GIF image dated 28/11/13 above to enlarge. Image courtesy of Stuart McNair (F&WHR).
Plans are in place for the next steps in the Harbour Station redevelopment from 6/1/14 leading up to the opening on 22/3/14.
Other tasks to be scheduled for completion by the start of the new season are to extend the recently constructed new platform back to the station and link into the existing platform outside Spooner's, including the sharply curved section into the retained straight FR platform. Following this the FR platform tracks and WHR platform tracks can be linked up and the FR run-round and yard completed. Finally the new signalling and pointwork can be commissioned and the trackwork over the whole area aligned and tamped ready for traffic.
Bont Briwet ongoing problems 5/12/13
After river bed scouring led to the old Bont Briwet bridge being deemed unsafe, road traffic resumed on 4/12/13. However rail traffic is not expected to resume until 9/12/13 with continuing bustitution between Harlech and Pwllheli until then. See Liverpool Daily Post story.
North Wales Coast/Conway Valley storm damage 5/12/13
ATW advises: Due to track damage caused by adverse weather on Thursday 5/12/13, amended services will operate as shown below. The Conwy valley route (between Blaenau Ffestiniog and Llandudno Junction) is closed and train services are suspended. The route is expected to remain closed until at least Thursday 12/12/13. Replacement road transport will operate. The North Wales Coast route is closed between Chester and Rhyl and will remain closed until at least Saturday 7/12/13 due to severe damage to the sea wall, however an hourly train service will operate between Rhyl and Holyhead in both directions. Replacement road transport will operate between Chester and Rhyl calling at all stations.
Customers for Deganwy and Llandudno should change at Llandudno Junction where a half hourly shuttle train service will operate.
Any further information will be posted here when it becomes available.
For further information, please visit www.journeycheck.com/arrivatrainswales.
We thank all Customers for their patience and are sorry for the inconvenience this will cause customers using these routes.
North Wales Group Meeting 11/12/13
Elwyn Jones reports: Just a brief reminder of our meeting next Wednesday evening @7.30pm where our very own John Ellis Williams and Humphrey Davies will entertain us with a host of pictures of the Welsh Highland Railway pre-1970 and post 1997. Venue: Mountain Rangers Football Club, Rhosgadfan.
Team Wylfa report 3/12/13
Clive Briscoe reports: The first job on Tuesday evening was to check and oil up Sion Corn's train (the Santa Specials rake) in the Carriage Shed. Only one of the carriages had roller bearing axleboxes so it took a little longer than planned but we decided that, as the weather forecast was pretty foul for Thursday night, we'd let Martin and Rod off so they could toast their toes in front of their fires instead of turning out in the icy blast! We got a little bit more done on No.134 afterwards. I took our 1½" BSP pipe die up to the Loco Shed, cut the short spool for the front buffer beam vac brake standard and got one end threaded. We rooted in a box of bits and bobs that had arrived in a B Wagon from Port Shepstone in 1997 and found just what we needed - a gooseneck. It was very rusty when we recovered it but by the time we knocked off, it was nice and shiny waiting for a coat of paint. Oh, we finished painting the suspension beams we started last week.
That's it from Team Wylfa for 2013 until the first Tuesday in January so Best Wishes for the Christmas Season to all our readers. This doesn't mean the end of work on No.134 though, the main No.134 Group are having the last working weekend of the year a week on Saturday. If you'd like to join in, check the Contacts Page on the dedicated No.134 restoration website and let Andie Shaw or Pete Randall know you're coming. (Un)fortunately, I'll be several thousand miles away getting the break I should have had in June.
Tuesday Gang report 3/12/13
The Tuesday Gang spent 3/12/13 at Harbour Station continuing with the kango tamping of road 2 and also assisting S & T with the fitting of insulated fishplates to the WHR Queen Point. Both tasks were successfully concluded.
This southerly view 3/12/13 shows the Tuesday Gang packing the point leading to 2 road at Porthmadog Harbour station. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Tony Baker and was taken on an Olympus digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
This westerly view 3/12/13 shows the Tuesday Gang packing the headshunt area at Porthmadog Harbour station. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Tony Baker and was taken on an Olympus digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
NG 15 plans
With the NG15 No.134 now in the recently extended north end of the Loco Shed a plan has been devised for further progress and the following work is currently underway.
Paid staff and volunteers are being used, with volunteer work parties usually on the third weekend of the month. Volunteers are still welcome. Contact Pete Randall (see Contacts page). Once the above list is complete the NG15 group will reassess funding. The remaining large item of work is the boiler and donations are always welcome. Some £700 was raised at the AGM/SuperPower Gala.
Appeal for track and bridge inspectors
Additional track inspectors are needed and these need to be trained to be track-safe. Contact Alun Tomlinson on email@example.com. The F&WHR is also looking for bridge inspectors, following NR Structures Management practice. Qualified personnel are also needed to audit the work of others. There are 66 bridges on the WHR (and a further 33 on the FR). Contact firstname.lastname@example.org.
Harbour Station construction programme
With the first blockade (6/11-12/12/13) of Harbour Station nearing an end the programme is almost complete. A second longer blockade will take from early 2/1/13 until the start of the 2014 Season on 22/3/13 and see the platforms, track and signalling completed. The WHR timetable remains undetermined. Many items in the following list are now well underway or completed.
ISAAC heads for L&BR 29/11/13
Bagnall ISAAC, which has been undergoing final snagging work at Boston Lodge, has left for its new home at the L&BR. The loco left in late November and arrived at Woody Bay on 29/11/13. See L&BR website for more details and images. The three replica coaches Nos.7/16/17 will soon be in use as No.16 left Great Yeldham for Woody Bay on 19/9/13. Boston Lodge is constructing the underframe for No.11, a seven compartment all third vehicle and the fourth underframe made in two years for the L&BR.
F&WHR wins tourist award 21/11/13
The F&WHR has been voted the top tourist attraction in North Wales for the 2013 National Tourist Awards. General Manager Paul Lewin collected the award at a ceremony in Llandudno on 21/11/13. See F&WHR story for more details.
Team Wylfa report 26/11/13
Clive Briscoe reports: This is the penultimate report for 2013 from Team Wylfa with further progress on NG15 No.134 on the evening of 26/11/13. We started the evening by bringing another length of 1½" NB steel tube and the hydraulic pipe bender into the Loco Shed and your scribe measured and cut the first two spools for the new vacuum brake train pipe. The section across the buffer beam is cut to length and the next section rearwards is cut but now needs bending to shape. We need to get the 1½" BSP dies in as well as the ends of these two pipes need screwing to go into elbows -one at the base of the standard to the gooseneck and front bag and the other where the pipe goes through the front buffer beam. These will be 'I think' only 2 of 4 on the loco as the intention is to bend most of the pipes to shape in the longest possible lengths and join the ends with bolted flanges for ease of future maintenance. Previously, it was made up of spools threaded at their ends and joined by screwed collars - very difficult to split if you needed to remove a section. We will be making a press tool die to make pipe clips to hold the train pipe next as we haven't any clips but have got MS strip to make them from.
Andy carried on painting the suspension components -these are almost finished now. We were joined by Mike M from the main No.134 Group. Matt and Pete helped sort the motion and dug out the rods that still had solidified grease in their lubricators so that Mike could carry on the work of burning it out that he'd started on the recent working weekend. Next week we may only get an hour to do No.134 work as we'll be back to checking and oiling the carriages ready for the Santa Specials which begin the following weekend, and that will be that for Team Wylfa for 2103 as we'll be taking a break until the first week of January in the New Year.
Tuesday Gang report 26/11/13
The gang spent 26/11/13 at Porthmadog Harbour station where we assisted with the Kango tamping of the newly laid track from the points at the end of the platform road to the headshunt at the water tower. Old material was also loaded onto a PW train and taken away.
This westerly view 19/11/13 shows the Tuesday Gang packing the headshunt at Porthmadog Harbour station. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Tony Baker and was taken on an Olympus digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
YouTube Harbour Station progress 19/11/13
Click on the YouTube box above to watch 13 mins 52 secs of video of progress with the Harbour Station upgrade in mid-November published on 19/11/13. The YouTube clip is best watched in 1080p HD mode. This video was taken by John Wooden (F&WHR) on a professional camcorder.
The current coach construction project at Boston lodge Carriage Works is making good progress. No.2046 is a WHRS funded standard saloon constructed to the WHR stock profile. The coach has been transferred to the paint shop as it was externally complete. Although the exterior is complete, doors and corridor connections remained to be fitted during the Autumn. The interior is almost finished and recently work was underway on the mouldings around the windows and the tables. Another 'Gladstone Car' is to be constructed out of Open Coach No.2022, following the success of No. 2021 last year. As part of the refurbishment, the exterior plywood needs replacing as it is rotting. Vinyl seating will be provided.Some carriages are to get new seat fabric covering as the original Winson coaches are looking a bit tired. Their paintwork will also get a touch up and re-varnish. Replica Ashbury No.24 will also be receiving a good clean up and varnish. The WHRS has recently helped towards the cost of a plywood sheet panel saw. The Carriage Appeal which was circulated with the last WHRS membership reminder has allowed good progress with No.2046 including pleasant smelling Brazilian cedar, an expensive and hard to source material. The coach will be ready for the 2014 season if not before.
Team Wylfa report 19/11/13
Clive Briscoe reports: We had a very productive evening on No.134 this week. The Team continued where the No.134 Group had left off on Sunday – Pete and Dave continued cleaning and painting the recently returned spring hanger rods and balance beams for the compensated springing. These had been away at Boston Lodge for NDT and fitting of hardened steel bushes in the pin holes. Andy went between the frames at the rear end and cleaned the rear frame stretcher/pony truck pivot and undercoated it and touched up the inside faces of the frames in that area. Matt cleaned the underside of the front K-H truck frame and he and Pete then painted it (continuing where they had left off on the top face last Tuesday).
Meanwhile, your scribe turned pyromaniac trying to remove some stubs of pipe from a cruciform fitting from the vacuum brake pipe system. Eventually, the two 1½”NB stubs came out – after being annealed and then collapsed into the bore by careful use of a hammer and small chisel. The good news was that the 2”NB plug in the underside of this cruciform fitting DID yield - after liberal application of heat from the rose burner and a 3ft Stilson wrench. This plug is where a drain pot and automatic drain valve should fit as it is at the lowest part of the vac brake pipe system on the loco. Next week we should complete painting of the suspension components and will be bringing the hydraulic pipe bender into the Loco Shed to start bending and fitting the new train pipe from front to back.
Tuesday Gang report 19/11/13
Tony Baker reports: The gang worked down at Porthmadog Harbour St for most of the day on 19/11/13. On the way to Porthmadog we stopped off at Meillionen (Beddgelert Forest Campsite Halt) to tidy up our garden at the station. This was in affect gathering up all the accumulated leaves from platform and track. Also 3 other lads assisted Fred Howes with a survey of the bend at Bryn-y-Felin. Once we all gathered at Porthmadog we set to assisting with connecting the newly installed points at the water tank end to the trackwork. This involved a certain amount of rail cutting and fish plating up. Surplus old point timbers were loaded onto a wagon for onward movement to Minffordd Yard.
This northerly view 19/11/13 shows the Tuesday Gang cutting rails in Porthmadog Harbour station. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Tony Baker and was taken on an Olympus digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
This westerly view 19/11/13 shows the Tuesday Gang fitting track in Porthmadog Harbour station. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Tony Baker and was taken on an Olympus digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
K1 report 16-17/11/13
Andy Rutter reports: The K1 Group had a very constructive working party over the weekend of 16-17/1/13. Firstly, we tackled the source of steam leaks evident since the September gala. These are mainly around the pendulum pipe, simpling valve, operating cylinder and flexible connections. These will be attended to as soon as possible. The second main job was to re-instate the lamps on the locomotive, with the front 'Phos' patent acetylene reproduction lamp working on its internal batteries, and the rear SAR reproduction lamp wired up to work from a temporary set of batteries in the cab. These lamps will eventually be connected to the turbo-generator that was commissioned this weekend after being connected to steam via a new valve. The unit was run up and produced 100 watts so this is quite an achievement as the other units for the fleet can be resurrected similarly. Thanks are due to Frank Collin who spent many hours working on the unit at his workshop.
This southerly twilight view 16/11/13 shows K1 with Conway Castle. Steam was being raised in readiness for test runs on Sunday. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright John Startin and was taken on a digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
This Dinas Loco Shed view 17/11/13 shows K1 with the SAR reproduction rear headlamp under test. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Nobby Clark and was taken on a digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
This Dinas Loco Shed view 17/11/13 shows K1's turbo-generator being tested and lighting up 100W of lamps. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Nobby Clark and was taken on a digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
This northerly view 17/11/13 shows K1 under test on its way back from Bontnewydd, the object being to find steam leaks. Click on the image to enlarge. This image is copyright Nobby Clark and was taken on a digital camera. Image post processed using Zoner Photo Studio 13 and displayed at 96dpi.
Harbour Station development project volunteering 2013-14
Volunteers are right at the forefront of the effort to get the work finished in time. The station must be ready for trains on both railways by mid March. We have a mix of weekend and weekday working parties. The Black Hand, Tuesday and Rest of the World Gangs will be very glad to see anyone interested in lending a hand. Contact the relevant organiser to let him know when you plan to join us. Please do not just run up as that makes it difficult for us to plan ahead.
The programme for the remainder of 2013 and the first months of 2014 is as follows:
# Possible Santa Special trains
^ Bank Holiday
LW-Long weekend Friday-Monday
WW-Working week Saturday-Friday
WW+-Working week Monday-Sunday
The Tuesday Gang expects to be operating pretty well every Tuesday.
Arrangements may change so contact the working party organiser before you commit yourself to joining us just to make sure.
If you intend to join one of the weekend or Tuesday gangs, please contact the appropriate organiser. If you are interested in weekday working or have any queries about track work volunteering, please contact Paul Bradshaw.
Contact Tony Baker for details. Phone: 01492 874579 Email: SPUDDY43@aol.com
North Wales Black Hand Gang (BHG):Dafydd Thomas Phone: 01248 681019 Email: email@example.com
Rest of The World Gang (ROWG):Paul Bradshaw Phone: 01766 770034 Email: firstname.lastname@example.org
Postal address: Construction Office, Dinas Station, Llanwnda, Caernarfon, Gwynedd LL54 5UP
If you intend to join one of the weekend or Tuesday Gang days, please contact the appropriate organiser. If you are interested in weekday working or have any queries about track work volunteering, please contact Paul Bradshaw. See Contacts page.
John Hopkins has contributed this image of the gradient profile of the WHR. It makes clear how much of a mountain we have climbed and how steep the drop through Beddgelert is. Maybe most of all, it reveals the challenge facing northbound trains after they stop at Beddgelert!
This image is courtesy/copyright John Hopkins and is derived from data courtesy John Sreeves with additional work by Michael Bentley. Click on the image to enlarge.
|7-8/12/13 & 14-15/12/13 & 22-11/12/13||Santa Specials 2013 (Caernarfon-Waunfawr)Santa Specials 2013|
|27/12/13-1/1/14||Mince Pie Specials 2013-4|
If you have suggestions for development of this site, please contact me by email at the address at the top of the page.
If you would like to make a comment about this website, why not visit my Guestbook?
Maps & Plans and links
Click here for Steve Harris' /WHRS' full list of Historical Maps and Gradient Profiles
DVD material can be purchased from Jon Marsh who is the WHRS' (DVD Only) Mail Order officer. All other materials are now sold in the F&WHRS shop.
Click here for the Mail Order web page
Click here for the Official WHR website
Click here for Official WHHR site
Click here for FR Company websites
Click here for Welsh Highland Heritage Group
V4.2632 updated 11/12/13